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11th Nov, EMAIL to mini-list & UK-LRO. What
engines fit what gearboxes ????
13th Nov, EMAIL Neville Breach
Rover V8 fits LT77, LT95, LT85? and R380 200/300Tdi fits LT77
and R380 R and S series fits VW front drive box from Golf MK1. S or T series
fits LT77 A series (longitudinal) fits Fiat box (with mods) B series gawd knows
Allegro never had a B series engine, although the MG and
Marina did. The big Allegro engine was the Maxi engine 1750 O series. The
gearbox fitted to the O series is a cable change thing but I do not know what it
was called.
Cheers Nev
13th Nov, EMAIL, Huw Scourfield
Spag, the O series, right up to the twincam 16v version
(otherwise known as the m16, or latterly the t16) will fit to the 1750/2litre
Princess gearbox. Some of the Princesses had a 2.2l 6 cyl engine, don't know owt
about them!
The O series will also fit the Sherpa/sd1 5 speed inline
gearbox and is a good if not heavy swap into the MGBGT.
The O series was only ever fitted to the Maestro/Montego in 2l
guise, otherwise they were fitted with A series (Volkswagen gearbox), or E
series(Volkswagen gearbox), or the S series (Maxi engine?) -(Volkswagen
gearbox).
The box fitted to the 2l Montys was the same Honda derived
gearbox (called PG1) as fitted to the 220,820 Rover .
This 2litre 16v engine is what I have in my Metro, with a
modified gearbox (ratios and LSD).
K series was brand new development, mated to puny Peugeot 106
gearbox, Latest 1800 MGF's use the PG1 gearbox with a modified sidecasing. This
would really be the best option for my Metro but I'm loath to convert now on the
grounds of cost and the big engine beats anything else I've raced against for
torque! The K series head is also puny and to get the sort of grunt out of it
that I need would require loads of revs, the 1800 K is the same stroke as my 2l
(89mm).
Also there was fitted to the Rover 218 diesel a Peugeot engine
mated to the PG1 gearbox, I've discovered that this engine is a cast iron
version of the1.9 alloy Peugeot 309 engine, I've also discovered that the Rover
m16 head will fit to the Peugeot block! So when I come across a knackered 218
diesel rover I'll be nicking the adapter plate and flywheel assembly, I've
already got the alloy block.
Yours forever boring,
Huw
PS what you up to spag?
Ok so does this mean that O series/m16/t16
will fit :-
1800 Princess/Maxi/Landcrab box, (oops Landcrab (BMC1800) had a B
series engine didn't it), Sherpa/SD1 LT77 box, A series VW box, E series
VW box, and maybe the Honda PG1 box?
Yes the m/t 16 will fit the 1700/2l princess box(don't know
how that is related to the 1800,landcrab, ( the maxi is definitely different) -
I
suspect the 1800 princess is the same as the 1700/2l. It will fit the SD1 type
box with the sherpa bellousing(see MG Owners club
website). It won't fit the vw type box at all, but of course the Pg1 box
was designed by honda but made specifically for the rovers .
Got any haynes type pics / cutaways or explosions for any of these ?????
I'll have a look, but if you want an easy option then the m/t
16 on a princess gearbox should take an afternoon! - but it will be a little
heavy
:(
Personally the Peugeot/Citroen MI16 on a princess gearbox would be hard to beat
for space and power! - Would require some alloy welding though to get the
sump/gearbox flanges lined up.
Whatever you do - don't go out and buy a Honda gearbox - they are made for
engines which run backwards!
COMPATIBILITY CHART THING FROM HUW
eng_box.txt
14th Nov, EMAIL, Jukka Harkola
V8 Specific questions regarding Viku’s beast
Hi Jukka,
I am unreasonably interested in the tech details of Viku's V8 beasty.
Looking at the pics on your site it seems that the engine to box adapter plates
are fairly straightforward, though it is not so clear how the clutch end works.
The great illusion !! This conversion kept Viku busy for a
couple of years, first the initial planning, then finding the bits and then the
actual work ! I was very surprised when I heard about his choice for gearbox !
So here’s (quite) a few questions - if that's ok :-)
Was an adapter plate made to go between the end of the engine/box and the clutch
housing ??
If you look at the photo showing the various components you'll see several
adapters. First there are a couple of alloy sheets fitted on the block. This is
to enable the box and block to be bolted together. Then there is a piece of
alloy welded on the gearbox case to lengthen the box below the front of the
engine. This is because the lock is longer.
OK, that's the odd bit with the U shape machined into it to
clear the crank ?
I suppose that a part sump could be fitted in place of that, though strength and
sealing would be compromised.
Yes on both accounts.
Then there are the two plates on the left of the photo. The
upper shows a thin section of alloy that bolts to the rear of the block. The
lower part is the end plate from Princess that has been partly machined to get
the surface flat. The upper plate fits between the block and the end plate. The
part of the block were the starter is fitted was removed and a new fitting for
the starter is on the endplate. Princess starter was used.
That makes sense, I see how the bolt holes line up now :-)
Why was it done that way as opposed to just making a single plate ?
I suppose that the Princess end plate carries various drillings /
fittings / bosses for drop gear vs. gearbox so this was required anyway.
IIRC it did not have enough material so a spacer plate was required.
Looking at the length of the input shaft to the box, and the end of the
clutch housing it would appear that the transfer gears are on the outside end of
the clutch ??
Correct. However the clutch setup is conventional. I.e. block, flywheel, clutch
plate, pressure plate.
How much of the box/clutch/transfer stuff was from the princess ?
Box and transfer gears are std Princess stuff. Especially transfer gears are
HUGE! Flywheel is partly Range rover, partly Princess. Bolted together !!!
Clutch plate is from Saab Turbo, pressure plate (diaphragm) from Rover 800
series.
Don't understand the bit about the flywheel, but I guess
that the crank end is Range Rover coz it will fit the crank tail, and the rest
was chosen to fit to the Princess gears ?
Yes, the Range Rover flywheel was mostly discarded,
the only thing that's left is the flange. Princess flywheel was machined at the
center to make a snug fit to the Range Rover flange and these to fitted together
with M6 bolts (!!!!), Number of bolts around 10 pcs. This has always puzzled me,
How on earth can they transmit the torque...
I can't see any gearchange linkage, does it come out
mini-style from under the diff ??
Yes, in fact Mini rod change fits directly to Princess box.
Will the box handle the torque for long without exploding :-)
Judging by the size of the gears yes. Those who have dealt with
princess say that the gearbox is the only thing that never needed fixing...
Was the diff machined just to get a specific ratio or to accept better pot
joints ?
Simply for taller ratio, ratio is just about as tall as could physically be
machined and still fit in the box.
What combination of parts is used for the driveshafts/cv ?
Inner part Princess, outer part Mini. Outer CV´s normal Mini.
Custom driveshafts to fit from Princess pot joints to mini
CV ??
Well sort of, std Mini shaft cut and a slot machined into it. Princess shaft cut
and machined to fit the slot. Something like A+ oil pump drive. A sleeve was
machined to fit outside the shaft and keep the ends in line. The sleeve is
welded on the shafts. Otherwise the connection is mechanical. I can send you a
drawing to clarify this point.
This is a temporary budget solution since Viku suspected that the weak point is
the outer splines at the CV. He did not want to spend money on custom made set
if the CV would fail. He made 3 driveshafts which are basically of same length
so he has one spare if one fails.
How much heavier is the front of the car and was the suspension altered ?
Total weight 780 kg, front end 500 kg. Normal tweaks, negative camber arms, std
front subframe, Metro vented 4-pots with Mintex pads.
Any idea how that compares to a std mini ??
He did not measure the can but since I also have a Clubman we might weigh my car
for comparison.
Was much work required to change the engine bay other than
changing the engine mounting points ??
Bulkhead and crossmember behind the engine is as original. IIRC he had to hit a
small dent somewhere. Left inner wing is cut at some locations to clear the
water pump, oil cleaner and crank pulley.
Right inner wing was cut because of the radiator, otherwise it would have been
just about as original.
At front the ex manifold just about sits where the grille is so the grill was
relieved of material at some locations and thin spacers have been fitted between
the bodyshell and the grille.
He squeezed the engine under the bonnet by tilting it backwards about 10 degrees
and fitting a Offenhauser manifold. Also the Edelbrock carb has been machined
lower by removing the choke. It starts anyway so who needs choke...
From the manifold shown where do the two pipes join and how are they routed
around the engine ??
I think they join just behind the diff.
Hope you don't mind the interrogation :-)
No I don't. You can always check from Viku himself. Try viku.perala@inchcape.fi.
He is pretty busy but hopefully he has time to respond. If not just ask me. I
know the details somehow, visited his garage a couple of times when the
drivetrain was in pieces.
Thanks again for the information so far, it has really cleared up a lot of
issues.
Apart from the minis I also have a Landrover that is in line for a V8
conversion so I am currently finding V8 bits for that, but I am very tempted to
divert the resources. It looks like Viku has put a great deal of time into
researching what parts can be put together and has come up with a very elegant
solution. I think that following his pioneering work it would be a relatively
straightforward conversion.
Obviously if I do decide to proceed then a detailed step by step web site will
be put together with full credits for tech advice and links to your site for the
original car.
I have done nothing on Viku´s car (except welded the oil
pickup pipe and borrowed my TIG welder). So if you want to credit someone it is
him. I believe he has some rough sketches so you might have a word with him for
help.
Jukka
17th Nov, HARDWARE !!
Collected a FREE V8 block & crank from Alasdair Worsley,
from UK-LRO, big thanks to Al J .
After (serious) cleaning it could be a nice wine rack
!!!
22nd Nov, EMAIL to mini-list & UK-LRO, Haynes for
Princess/Maxi/Allegro wanted
no luck :-(
23rd Nov, EMAIL, Theo van den Bogaard
Reply from Theo with GIFs of 1500B series engine & box,
1800 info to follow.
24th Nov, EMAIL, Theo van den Bogaard
GIFs for 1800 engine,diff, transfer gears & box.
B series engine pics
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